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[Simor]

Britanski premijer Gordon Braun uputio je posthumno izvinjenje Alanu Turingu, poznatom matematičaru i kriptoanalitičaru iz Drugog svetskog rata, koji se ubio dve godine nakon što je osuđen za homoseksualnost od strane britanske vlade.

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[mythe]

sve je to lepo, ali kakve on koristi ima od tog posthumnog izvinjenja???

[Simor]

2009 has been a year of deep reflection - a chance for Britain, as a nation, to commemorate the profound debts we owe to those who came before. A unique combination of anniversaries and events have stirred in us that sense of pride and gratitude which characterise the British experience. Earlier this year I stood with Presidents Sarkozy and Obama to honour the service and the sacrifice of the heroes who stormed the beaches of Normandy 65 years ago. And just last week, we marked the 70 years which have passed since the British government declared its willingness to take up arms against Fascism and declared the outbreak of World War Two. So I am both pleased and proud that, thanks to a coalition of computer scientists, historians and LGBT activists, we have this year a chance to mark and celebrate another contribution to Britain’s fight against the darkness of dictatorship; that of code-breaker Alan Turing.

Turing was a quite brilliant mathematician, most famous for his work on breaking the German Enigma codes. It is no exaggeration to say that, without his outstanding contribution, the history of World War Two could well have been very different. He truly was one of those individuals we can point to whose unique contribution helped to turn the tide of war. The debt of gratitude he is owed makes it all the more horrifying, therefore, that he was treated so inhumanely. In 1952, he was convicted of ‘gross indecency’ - in effect, tried for being gay. His sentence - and he was faced with the miserable choice of this or prison - was chemical castration by a series of injections of female hormones. He took his own life just two years later.

Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt with under the law of the time and we can’t put the clock back, his treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him. Alan and the many thousands of other gay men who were convicted as he was convicted under homophobic laws were treated terribly. Over the years millions more lived in fear of conviction.

I am proud that those days are gone and that in the last 12 years this government has done so much to make life fairer and more equal for our LGBT community. This recognition of Alan’s status as one of Britain’s most famous victims of homophobia is another step towards equality and long overdue.

But even more than that, Alan deserves recognition for his contribution to humankind. For those of us born after 1945, into a Europe which is united, democratic and at peace, it is hard to imagine that our continent was once the theatre of mankind’s darkest hour. It is difficult to believe that in living memory, people could become so consumed by hate - by anti-Semitism, by homophobia, by xenophobia and other murderous prejudices - that the gas chambers and crematoria became a piece of the European landscape as surely as the galleries and universities and concert halls which had marked out the European civilisation for hundreds of years. It is thanks to men and women who were totally committed to fighting fascism, people like Alan Turing, that the horrors of the Holocaust and of total war are part of Europe’s history and not Europe’s present.

So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved so much better.

Gordon Brown

http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page20571

[Tot]

Evo još jednog korisnog linka:


Alan Turing

[Vel boy]

Long overdue, ali bolje ikad nego nikad!

[Lepa Krepa]

Originally posted by mythe
sve je to lepo, ali kakve on koristi ima od tog posthumnog izvinjenja???

a poenta ovog pitanja je?

[Vel boy]

just ignore him!

[Combo]

Ima negde tema, Paki nas je izveštavao kako to ide i dokle se stiglo.

Ubio se čovek, patio se...ode. Ne možemo ni da zamislimo kako mu je bilo, u onom vremenu, sa onim shvatanjima.

Al eto...on se sam ubio dok danas, 50 godina posle, u Iranu sami javno ubijaju homoseksualce...

[Vel boy]

Originally posted by Combo
Ima negde tema, Paki nas je izveštavao kako to ide i dokle se stiglo.

znam/o. samo shto je Pakijeva tema pre(d)-izvinjenje, a ova post-izvinjenje.

Originally posted by Combo
Ubio se čovek....
Al eto...on se sam ubio

pa, bio je nagnan stravichnim nachinom ophodjenja prema njemu od strane ondashnje britanske vrhushke.

[Combo]

Imala je ta rečenica nastavak.

Hteo sam da kažem da i danas ima društava u kojima je nedosanjan san da se pojedinac sam odluči na takav korak umesto što ga oni sami smaknu.

[mythe]

Originally posted by Lepa Krepa

Originally posted by mythe
sve je to lepo, ali kakve on koristi ima od tog posthumnog izvinjenja???

a poenta ovog pitanja je?

poenta je da ukazem na licemerje i cinizam jedne od "vrednosti zapadne civilizacije" a to je cuveno "duboko izvinjenje"...mislim coveku je nacinjena ogromna nepravda, propatio je i zavrsilo se njegovom smrcu i onda nakon 50ak godina, neko mu uputi "izvinjenje". Zato se ja, kao pragmatican i racionalan covek, koga interesira jedino "carstvo zemaljsko" ( a ne nebesko) lepo pitam kakve on jadan koristi ima od toga?

[Combo]

Nikakve, naravno.

Po meni ništa nemaju ni deca i dalji potomci rehabilitovanih, u takvim slučajevima.

[Lepa Krepa]

Originally posted by mythe

Originally posted by Lepa Krepa

Originally posted by mythe
sve je to lepo, ali kakve on koristi ima od tog posthumnog izvinjenja???

a poenta ovog pitanja je?

poenta je da ukazem na licemerje i cinizam jedne od "vrednosti zapadne civilizacije" a to je cuveno "duboko izvinjenje"...mislim coveku je nacinjena ogromna nepravda, propatio je i zavrsilo se njegovom smrcu i onda nakon 50ak godina, neko mu uputi "izvinjenje". Zato se ja, kao pragmatican i racionalan covek, koga interesira jedino "carstvo zemaljsko" ( a ne nebesko) lepo pitam kakve on jadan koristi ima od toga?

u pravu si. trebalo je sesti u vremeplov i vratiti se 50 godina unazad, pa lepo srediti stvar. ili, u najmanju ruku, zovnuti dr. frankenštajna da vozdigne čoveka, pa mu se fino i pristojno u lice izvinuti, a ne ovako jajarski, posthumno. al jbg, šta zna licemerni zapadnjak šta je pragmatičnost i racionalnost.

[Combo]

izviniti

[Lepa Krepa]

ja se izvinjajem.

[Combo]

haha

nema potrebe, sklizne prst

[Vel boy]

Originally posted by mythe

Originally posted by Lepa Krepa

Originally posted by mythe
sve je to lepo, ali kakve on koristi ima od tog posthumnog izvinjenja???

a poenta ovog pitanja je?

poenta je da ukazem na licemerje i cinizam jedne od "vrednosti zapadne civilizacije" a to je cuveno "duboko izvinjenje"...mislim coveku je nacinjena ogromna nepravda, propatio je i zavrsilo se njegovom smrcu i onda nakon 50ak godina, neko mu uputi "izvinjenje". Zato se ja, kao pragmatican i racionalan covek, koga interesira jedino "carstvo zemaljsko" ( a ne nebesko) lepo pitam kakve on jadan koristi ima od toga?

o, boze, ne da se ovaj ni ignorisati.

dakle, korist i poenta izvinjenja je valjda da se jasno i glasno kaze da NIJE valjalo ondashnje antigej ponashanje na zapadu te da tog institucionalizovanog antigej ponashanja vishe NE SME biti!
znachi, ima benefita od izvinjenja

[Combo]

Ma kakav benefit...

[Egmont]

Srbija pati od deficita simbola.

[RuznaGlupaZla]

Originally posted by Egmont
Srbija pati od deficita simbola.

Ih, od čega sve ona pati ...

[Egmont]

Npr, od cinizma.

[Combo]

A jel korektno da se kaže "gej naučnik".

Posthumno izvinjenje velikom britanskom gej naučniku
Posthumno izvinjenje velikom britanskom naučniku koji je bio gay

Onako mi ispada kao da je od GAY napravio NAUKU.

[RuznaGlupaZla]

Originally posted by Egmont
Npr, od cinizma.

To je samo prehlada...

[Sunce]

Divna i tuzna vest, u isto vreme. U svakom slucaju, lepo je sto su se setili.

[Frey]

Hm... Neverovatno je da jako dobro poznajem Turingov rad, a da čak nisam ni imao pojma da je bio gay, a kamoli da je ovako tragično završio. Strašno.

[Paki]

Originally posted by Combo
Ima negde tema, Paki nas je izveštavao kako to ide i dokle se stiglo.

Ubio se čovek, patio se...ode. Ne možemo ni da zamislimo kako mu je bilo, u onom vremenu, sa onim shvatanjima.

Al eto...on se sam ubio dok danas, 50 godina posle, u Iranu sami javno ubijaju homoseksualce...

http://www.gay-serbia.com/forum/viewthr ... pid1572292

tj.

Kampanja za državno izvinjenje gej matematičaru Alanu Tjuringu - http://tinyurl.com/ljwuz5

i od juče ...

Posthumno izvinjenje velikom britanskom gej naučniku http://bit.ly/QIa6g

(btw, u onoj peticiji iz prve vesti je sakupljeno na kraju više od 30 hiljada potpisa samo Britanaca i Britanki)

[Combo]

Jel to veliki broj?

[Mikili73]

Sada mogu da mu duvaju pod rep. Kasno. Sramota što je uopšte i došlo do toga da ga osuđuju zbog homoseksualnosti

[Combo]

Mene u celoj priči jako zanima da li se on kajao što je odabrao taj put.

Koliko je samo ljudi mnogo duže uživalo u životu, bili produktivni u poslu, imali lep seks...samo eto malo pazili, odabrali da budu diskretni i nisu prošlii kao on.

[unic0rn]

^ oh bozhe...

Turing je imao izbor, mogao je da se podvgne hormonlanim tretmanima za smanjenje libida ili da svoju kaznu odsluži u zatvoru.

Koje je to divljashtvo bilo, neverovatno.