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Moderatori: Over the rainbow, Moderators

By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1284931
Sodom and Gomorrah

As I was saying, Balbec, “a place that had been once mysterious and anxiety provoking” to Marcel, had become by the end of Sodom and Gomorrah “laden with purely human effluivia,” a landscape whose atmosphere was now “breathable without difficulty, too soothing even.” Social life had drained the seaside resort and its surrounding villages of their mystery. Or so Marcel claims.

Near the close of the novel, this passage, I think, throws his claim in doubt:


The light of the sun, which was about to come up, by modifying the object around me, made me once again, as if shifting my position for a moment in relation to it, aware, even more cruelly, of my pain. Never had I seen so beautiful and so sorrowful a morning. Reflecting on all the indifferent landscapes that were about to be illuminated, and which, only yesterday, would have filled me only with the desire to visit them, I could not contain a sob, when, in a mechanically executed gesture of oblation, seeming to symbolize for me the bloody sacrifice that I was about to have to make of all joy, each morning, until the end of my life, a renewal, solemnly celebrated at each dawning of my daily unhappiness and of the blood from my wound, the gold egg of the sun, as if propelled by the break in equilibrium produces at the moment of coagulation by a change of density, barbed with flames as in painting, burst in one bound through the curtain behind which I sensed it quivering for the past few moments, ready to enter on the stage and to spring upwards, and whose mysterious, congealed purple it erased beneath floods of light.



The pain Marcel speaks of is, of course, his fear that Albertine is a lesbian, a fear that has intensified following his discovery that she had been raised by Mlle. Vintueil’s friend (the friend whom a younger Marcel had secretly watched make love to Mlle. Vintueil). Marcel’s cry is an “oblation,” a “bloody sacrifice” to joy, a gesture “solemnly celebrated” with the “blood from my wound.” The language evokes the Passion. Faced with yet another real or imagined bit of damning evidence, he is suffering as Jesus suffered on the cross. The imagery of the sun (son) reinforces the comparison. As it rises “barbed with flames,” it erases the “congealed purple” behind Marcel’s curtains. (Purple the color of vestments worn in Catholic masses during Good Friday and the Easter Vigil, the high holy days preceding the Passion.) The contrast between indifference and engagement could hardly be more startling. Those who hesitate to identify Marcel with Jesus might still concede that this passage presents us with a mystery.

As a whole the closing pages of Sodom and Gomorrah are filled with mystery. As the sun rises, “in the disorder of the night mists that still hung in blue and pink shreds over waters littered with the pearly debris of the dawn, boats were passing, smiling at the oblique light that had turned their sails and the tips of their bowsprits yellow….” The sunrise was a “pure evocation of the sunset…” Just before watching daybreak, Marcel had woken suddenly to his bedroom door opening. “My heart pounding, I seemed to see my grandmother before me, as in one of those apparitions that I had already had, but only in my sleep.” Like the dawn, this experience—the apparition is his mother—inverts the expected to create a mysterious, other-worldly moment. Perhaps the most striking transformation occurs still earlier in the novel's last pages, when Marcel reflects on his distance from Albertine. “Should something violently alter the position of that soul in relation to us, to show us that it loves other human beings and not ourselves [as apparently Albertine had], them by the beating of our dislocated hearts, we feel that the cherished creature was not a few feet away, but inside us.” Not more distance, but not distant at all.

When I read the last pages of Sodom and Gomorrah, I see only counter-evidence to Marcel’s assertion that mystery no longer exists. “What a deceitful sense sight is!” he exclaims. Yes, what a misleading observation!
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1373444
OMG!
OMG!
OMG!
ja nisam znao za taj Prustov upitnik!!!!

Nemas poima koliko si me usrecio sad!
:yay:

to sto znam josh jednu pojedinost njegovog zanimljivog zivota
i
pre svega detalje jednog brilijantnog uma!

:)


A sad...

officially...
Will U Marry Me?
By Storm
#1373913
Bat of kors!
:kiss:

A Prustov upitnik je zanimljiva stvar.
Važno je da povremeno podižemo ovu temu i propagiramo čitanje Prusta.
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1374217
:mazi:

gde je sad onaj smajli vencanje ili sta vec
:)


mogli bi da zajedno popunjavamo upitnik...

kada ga popunim
postavicu ovde odgovore
By Storm
#1374459
Možda bi bilo bolje da otvoriš posebnu temu.
Sigurno bi npr u Kafiću bilo posećenije.
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1374521
Nije mi stalo da bude posecenije

Ipak je Prust nivo!!!

I nije za kafic

et toq!
:snob:


jesi li ti popunjavao?
By Storm
#1374880
Pa ne baš.
Ja sam za taj upitnik saznao dok sam čitao Vanity Fair. Tamo ga popunjavaju celebrities. Pa pošto ne vidim sebe na taj način nisam se posebno trudio da odgovaram.
:goran:
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1374900
Meni je u stvari fascinantna razlika u odgovorima
posle izvesnog vremena

kao sto je on ucinio sa 13 i 20 godina, bese?
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1375578
Sad naleteh na podatak da je prvu recenice knjige cak 15 puta preradjivao!

A, cudno, to je vrlo kratka recenica i ni malo prustovska
:)
Korisnikov avatar
By walt333
#1380357
Originally posted by B.U.
:leviathan:

Prust... Po mnogima je taj roman jedno od najboljih romana svih vremena!
AMIN
i moj omiljeni roman (mada ih imam jos). zaista iskreno zavidim svima koji roman nisu jos uvek procitali, jer je jedna od najvecih zivotnih uzivancija citati Prousta po prvi put. Ah... kako to lepo bejase.
:love:

Mada kada bolje razmislim kome god da sam preporucio roman. svi su batalili posle stotinak strana. I obicno bi me pitali sta to ima tako zanimljivo u tome sto se umakanje kolaca u caj opisuje na 10 strana. pateticne budale:snob:, ali dobro te osobe koje mi to kazu ne bi prepoznali umetnost ni pod tackom razno.
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1381655
Originally posted by walt333
Originally posted by B.U.
:leviathan:

Prust... Po mnogima je taj roman jedno od najboljih romana svih vremena!
AMIN
i moj omiljeni roman (mada ih imam jos). zaista iskreno zavidim svima koji roman nisu jos uvek procitali, jer je jedna od najvecih zivotnih uzivancija citati Prousta po prvi put.
Citanje Prusta i po stoti put je uzivancija!

Ja vrlo cesto, uzmem neki deo knjige i pocnem da citam od bilo koje strane...
Same recenice su pravo malo sintaksicko remek delo
Korisnikov avatar
By walt333
#1382303
ma jeste mozda uzivancija svaki put ga citati, ali nije isto kao prvi put.
kada se cita prvi put onda si u jednom novom svetu, ne znas sta ces ugledati u basti, niti koliko zanesenost traje, niti sta ces doziveti na nekom prijemu u romanu.
Drugi put kada citas otprilike znas gde sta stoji, i nema bas nekog krupnog iznenadjenja. Citalac se moze iznenaditi iskljucivo nekim novim detaljem koji mu je izmakao.

Mnogi romani su bas ucinili da se osecam tuznim sto sam ih zavrsio. Ali jedini roman koji citas citav zivot jeste onaj koji zivis:kafa:
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1382764
Originally posted by walt333
ma jeste mozda uzivancija svaki put ga citati, ali nije isto kao prvi put.
Ja bas mislim suprotno

sto bolje nekog/nesto znash
to je bolje uzivanje
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1478645
Juce sam proveo divno vece/popodne sa jednim forumasem pricajuci u Prustu
i posebno me iznenadio sto mi je citao deo iz knjige gde Prust prica o Renoarovim zenama...
:love:


elem...

ako neko zeli malo vise da se pozabavi Prustom...

http://www.readingproust.com/

zanimljiv sajt
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1478648
To je ovaj deo...

:love:

Women pass in the street, different from those we used to see, because they are Renoirs, the same Renoirs we once refused to see as women. The carriages are also Renoirs, and the water, and the sky: we want to go for a walk in a forest like the one that, when we first saw it, was anything but a forest — more like a tapestry, for instance, with innumerable shades of color but lacking precisely the colors appropriate to forests. Such is the new and perishable universe that has just been created. It will last until the next geological catastrophe unleashed by a new painter or writer with an original view of the world.
Korisnikov avatar
By walt333
#1769329
Procitao skoro izabrana pisma Marsela Prusta. omogucilo mi je da dobijem potpuno nov pristup u sagledavanju kompozicije i geneze samog dela ali i njega kako licnosti. Takodje me je i iznedadilo par cinjenica.:cita:
By Storm
#1769341
Vidim da je Paideia objavila Prustovo traganje.
Mislim da je to malo revidirani raniji prevod, isti prevodilac je ponešto promenio.

Nije mi jasan prevod naslova druge knjige.
À l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs
Mislim da je ranije bilo "U seni devojaka u cvetu" a sada je "U seni devojaka cvetova".
:neznam:
Korisnikov avatar
By walt333
#1771114
Originally posted by Renoir
Originally posted by walt333

Takodje me je i iznedadilo par cinjenica. :cita:
Koje?
S'il Vous plait... Dites - moi!
Pa uglavnom par nekih sitnica koje su mi bile interesatne. Recimo nisam znao da se dopisivao sa Koletom (cudno je da mi je to omaklo jer ih jako volim oboje:love:), Malo mi je sad jasniji odnos koji je Prust imao prema Koktou, njegova ljubav prema Ruskinu i odnos prema kriticarima. Cudno mi je bilo i to da vidim da ga je dosta povredjivalo to sto su ga drugi dozivljali kao feminiziranog ali i odsustvo strasti u pismima koje je pisao svojim ljubavnicima. Naravno njegovo bolesnicko prenemaganje je fantasticno :wink:
Posebno su mi interesatne i izmisljene reci koje je koristio kao sifru u svojim pismima da oznaci homoseksualca: mochant, moachant, mosch.
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1772741
a...
merci pour tes revelations


elem, ja ne znam za tu knjigu...potrazicu je

kako se ozve?

Ja sam pre 2 dana KONACNO
nasao
TIME REGAINED
film

i sad za vikend cu da ga gledam...
razmisljam da i decka posadim pored sebe da zajedno gledamo
mada, ne verujem da ce se njemu svideti...

on verra
Korisnikov avatar
By lazarus
#1775277
Da li je Paideino izdanje Proustovog romana U potrazi za izgubljenim vremenom kompletno? Narucio bih ga ako jeste.
By Storm
#1775291
Kako mi rekose, jeste, celo je.
To je u stvrai redigovani stari prevod na srpski. A redakciju je radio isti prevodilac, Živojinović.


I pošto sam nešto dobro raspoložen evo za sve na temi - madlene.

Slika
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1775320
Originally posted by Storm


I pošto sam nešto dobro raspoložen evo za sve na temi - madlene.

Slika
Jao,mico,hvala puno puno puno...

Ja obozavam madlene...steta samo sto ih kod nas nema bas nesto da se kupe
:(
ima neke samo sa cokoladom u pakovanju kao i mali oni kroasani

Ah... storme,brate,hvala...
Koji caj pijemo uz ovo?
Ja cu EARL GRAY

lazarus?
Korisnikov avatar
By lazarus
#1775356
Pozvan sam na čaj! :dancing:

Ooo, fino društvo.
By Storm
#1775363
Meni madlene i uopšte cela prva knjiga idu baš uz februar, kada je još hladno ali dan više nije kratak, uskoro će proleće i ... Svan, Verdirenovi, Žilberta...
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1775370
Ja sam juce/sinoc odgledao film
TIME REGAINED

i...

zbunjen sam

Ja moram da priznam da 'delovi' koji su odradjeni u filmu nisu bas oni koji su meni ostali u secanju...
tj....na primer, Swann se uopste u filmu ne pominje osim u jednoj jedinoj sceni od 3 minuta...

A ni Odete i Albertina (koja zauzima skoro 1/3 knjige i cela ta ljubomora Marsela prema njoj i sumnja da ga vara i sa devojkama i muskarcima)
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