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Književnost, film, TV, pozorišta, galerije...

Moderatori: Over the rainbow, Moderators

By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1029777
Tokom mojih studija engleskog jezika i knjizevnosti, Blejk nije bio medju mojim omiljenim pesnicima...
Ali...pre neki dan naisao na neke pesme koje nismo obradjivali

and I was blown away!!!

Te, eto, da otvorim temu o njemu i njegovoj poeziji...

My favorites are...
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1029779
A Poison Tree by William Blake.


I was angry with my friend:
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe;
I told it not, my wrath did grow.

And I water'd it in fears,
Night & morning with my tears;
And I sunned it with my smiles
And with soft deceitful wiles.

And it grew both day and night,
Till it bore an apple bright;
And my foe beheld it shine,
And he knew that it was mine,

And into my garden stole
When the night had veil'd the pole:
In the morning glad I see
My foe outstretch'd beneath the tree
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1029781
GARDEN OF LOVE


I laid me down upon a bank,
Where Love lay sleeping;
I heard among the rushes dank
Weeping, weeping.

Then I went to the heath and the wild,
To the thistles and thorns of the waste;
And they told me how they were beguiled,
Driven out, and compelled to the chaste.

I went to the Garden of Love,
And saw what I never had seen;
A Chapel was built in the midst,
Where I used to play on the green.

And the gates of this Chapel were shut
And "Thou shalt not," writ over the door;
So I turned to the Garden of Love
That so many sweet flowers bore.

And I saw it was filled with graves,
And tombstones where flowers should be;
And priests in black gowns were walking their rounds,
And binding with briars my joys and desires
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1029782
THE CLOD AND THE PEBBLE

"Love seeketh not itself to please,
Nor for itself hath any care,
But for another gives it ease,
And builds a heaven in hell's despair."

So sang a little clod of clay,
Trodden with the cattle's feet,
But a pebble of the brook
Warbled out these metres meet:

"Love seeketh only Self to please,
To bind another to its delight,
Joys in another's loss of ease,
And builds a hell in heaven's despite."
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1030540
prevedi ovo Reni. Sto si takav???

Blejk (i Haksli)je inace bio inspiracija Morisonu za DOORS.
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1030547
BOJAH SE, MOJA BESNA CE OLUJA

Bojah se, moja besna ce oluja
zatrti krasno istinito cvece;
Ali mi pod suncem ono buja, buja,
Nikad ga ona otpuhnuti nece.

I ne bi krasnog istinitog cveca
ni na kom drvetu da se koci
Cvetali su oni na mnogo drveca
Besplodni, lazni, mada lepi za oci
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1030568
jedna od mojih omiljenih:

COVECJA BIT

Ne bi bilo Samilosti
bez necije Ubogosti;
sazaljenja biti nece
Kad svi budu nase srece

Iz straha se mir razvija,
Dok sebicna ljubav klija:
tad Okrutnost omcu splece,
pomno svoje mamce mece.

U svetome sedi strahu,
Lije suze po svem prahu:
Poniznost se ukorijeni
Ispod samih nogu njeni'

Troma sjena tajne tada
Po glavi joj brzo pada;
Gusjenica, Muha stane
Tajnu jesti poput hrane.

Plodom Himbe ona rodi,
Rumenim, da jest, da godi;
Gavran gnijezdo onda zdjene
Sred najdublje njene sjene.

Bozi zemlje i iz vode
Traze Drvo sred Prirode.
Zaludu im sve to bit ce,
Jer u Mozgu Drvo nice.
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1030570
bas bih volela da znam da li se jos nekom dopada
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1030738
Originally posted by Manon
prevedi ovo Reni. Sto si takav???

Salis se?!

et toq!
:snob:

Ako znam jezik na kome je pesma napisana, nikada ne trazim i prevod...

Original i prevod nikada ne mogu biti iste 'tezine' ma koliko d aje neko dobar prevodilac i connoseur odredjenog pesnika

Kod romana, to je vec nesto drugo...
Prust je, na primer, mnogo bolji na engleskom nego francuskom!
BAr meni
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1032907
LOVE'S SECRET

Never seek to tell thy love,
Love that never told can be;
For the gentle wind doth move
Silently, invisibly.

I told my love, I told my love,
I told her all my heart,
Trembling, cold, in ghastly fears.
Ah! she did depart!

Soon after she was gone from me,
A traveller came by,
Silently, invisibly:
He took her with a sigh.
Korisnikov avatar
By Galadriel
#1065996
ovo je moja omiljena.. obozavam blejka :love:



William Blake - Auguries of Innocence

To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.

A robin redbreast in a cage
Puts all heaven in a rage.

A dove-house fill'd with doves and pigeons
Shudders hell thro' all its regions.
A dog starv'd at his master's gate
Predicts the ruin of the state.

A horse misused upon the road
Calls to heaven for human blood.
Each outcry of the hunted hare
A fibre from the brain does tear.

A skylark wounded in the wing,
A cherubim does cease to sing.
The game-cock clipt and arm'd for fight
Does the rising sun affright.

Every wolf's and lion's howl
Raises from hell a human soul.

The wild deer, wand'ring here and there,
Keeps the human soul from care.
The lamb misus'd breeds public strife,
And yet forgives the butcher's knife.

The bat that flits at close of eve
Has left the brain that won't believe.
The owl that calls upon the night
Speaks the unbeliever's fright.

He who shall hurt the little wren
Shall never be belov'd by men.
He who the ox to wrath has mov'd
Shall never be by woman lov'd.

The wanton boy that kills the fly
Shall feel the spider's enmity.
He who torments the chafer's sprite
Weaves a bower in endless night.

The caterpillar on the leaf
Repeats to thee thy mother's grief.
Kill not the moth nor butterfly,
For the last judgement draweth nigh.

He who shall train the horse to war
Shall never pass the polar bar.
The beggar's dog and widow's cat,
Feed them and thou wilt grow fat.

The gnat that sings his summer's song
Poison gets from slander's tongue.
The poison of the snake and newt
Is the sweat of envy's foot.

The poison of the honey bee
Is the artist's jealousy.

The prince's robes and beggar's rags
Are toadstools on the miser's bags.
A truth that's told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent.

It is right it should be so;
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.

Joy and woe are woven fine,
A clothing for the soul divine.
Under every grief and pine
Runs a joy with silken twine.

The babe is more than swaddling bands;
Every farmer understands.
Every tear from every eye
Becomes a babe in eternity;

This is caught by females bright,
And return'd to its own delight.
The bleat, the bark, bellow, and roar,
Are waves that beat on heaven's shore.

The babe that weeps the rod beneath
Writes revenge in realms of death.
The beggar's rags, fluttering in air,
Does to rags the heavens tear.

The soldier, arm'd with sword and gun,
Palsied strikes the summer's sun.
The poor man's farthing is worth more
Than all the gold on Afric's shore.

One mite wrung from the lab'rer's hands
Shall buy and sell the miser's lands;
Or, if protected from on high,
Does that whole nation sell and buy.

He who mocks the infant's faith
Shall be mock'd in age and death.
He who shall teach the child to doubt
The rotting grave shall ne'er get out.

He who respects the infant's faith
Triumphs over hell and death.
The child's toys and the old man's reasons
Are the fruits of the two seasons.

The questioner, who sits so sly,
Shall never know how to reply.
He who replies to words of doubt
Doth put the light of knowledge out.

The strongest poison ever known
Came from Caesar's laurel crown.
Nought can deform the human race
Like to the armour's iron brace.

When gold and gems adorn the plow,
To peaceful arts shall envy bow.
A riddle, or the cricket's cry,
Is to doubt a fit reply.

The emmet's inch and eagle's mile
Make lame philosophy to smile.
He who doubts from what he sees
Will ne'er believe, do what you please.

If the sun and moon should doubt,
They'd immediately go out.
To be in a passion you good may do,
But no good if a passion is in you.

The whore and gambler, by the state
Licensed, build that nation's fate.
The harlot's cry from street to street
Shall weave old England's winding-sheet.

The winner's shout, the loser's curse,
Dance before dead England's hearse.

Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

We are led to believe a lie
When we see not thro' the eye,
Which was born in a night to perish in a night,
When the soul slept in beams of light.

God appears, and God is light,
To those poor souls who dwell in night;
But does a human form display
To those who dwell in realms of day.
Korisnikov avatar
By Galadriel
#1066001
plato je izdao njegova izabrana dela sa originalima na levoj strani i prevodom na desnoj. prevod je ok. na kraju knjige, kao dodatak na masnom papiru
su odstampali kako je izgledalo neko od prvih originalnih izdanja sa ilustracijama.
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1066095
Wow!
Potrazicu da pogledam...

mozda i kupim...

mada znam d asu takva izdanja bas skupa!
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1066225
arwen_evenstar,
to je i moja omiljena:

Vidjeti Svijet u Zrncu Pijeska,
Nebo u Divljem Cvetu,
Drzati Beskraj na dlanu ruke
I vjecnost u jednome satu...

(Znamenja nevinosti)
Korisnikov avatar
By Galadriel
#1066239
U zrncu peska videti svet
I beskraj na ruke dlanu
I nebo kroz jedan divlji cvet
I vecnost u jednom danu


...




mrzi me da pisem dalje
kupite knjigu :hyper: , prevod je od boljih bar od onih koje sam videla


1200 din. kosta

prodavacica mi je rekla da se ovaj prevodilac koristio raznim izvorima i da je radio godinama prevodeci blejka.. ttako da vredi
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1066245
arwen_evenstar,

To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.

citat prevoda:
U zrncu peska videti svet
I beskraj na ruke dlanu
I nebo kroz jedan divlji cvet
I vecnost u jednom danu


ako je ovo sto si napisala, prevod, bas mi se nesto ne dopada;

vec je davno prevedeno ovako:

Vidjeti Svijet u Zrncu Pijeska,
Nebo u Divljem Cvetu,
Drzati Beskraj na dlanu ruke
I vjecnost u jednome satu...

...

evo jos:

OTROVNO STABLO

Na svog druga Ijut bejah, smjesta
Bijes iskalih - Ijutnje nesta.
Na dušmana Ijut bejah, reći
Ne htjeh to - gnjev posta veći.

Zalijevah ga ja u zloći
Suzom danju i po noći
I sunčah na smijehu svom,
Mameći ga mišlju zlom.

Jabuku on u svom granju
Rodi, rastuć' noću, danju;
Dušman vidje gdje sred hvoja
Blista, znajuć' da je moja

Drznu mi se u vrt doći,
Ušulja se usred noći:
Ujutro ga u dan svježi
Vidjeh gdje pod stablom leži.

(prevod: Luka Paljetak)
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1066248
Originally posted by Renoir
LOVE'S SECRET

Never seek to tell thy love,
Love that never told can be;
For the gentle wind doth move
Silently, invisibly.

I told my love, I told my love,
I told her all my heart,
Trembling, cold, in ghastly fears.
Ah! she did depart!

Soon after she was gone from me,
A traveller came by,
Silently, invisibly:
He took her with a sigh.
LJUBAVNA TAJNA

Nikad ne otkrij Ijubav svoju,
Za nju znat' nitko ne bi smio;
Jer i blag vjetar dira hvoju
Tih i nevidljiv cio.

Ja otkrih, otkrih svoju Ijubav,
Otkrih joj srce sve;
Drhteći, hladna, u strahu ona,
Ah, ode, nesta nje!

Čim sam joj Ijubav otkrio bio,
Putnik se pojavi tu,
Tih i nevidljiv cio:
S uzdahom uze nju.

(prevod:Luka Paljetak)
Korisnikov avatar
By Galadriel
#1066252
Originally posted by Manon



ako je ovo sto si napisala, prevod, bas mi se nesto ne dopada;

vec je davno prevedeno ovako
nije bitno da li ti se svidja ili ne, nego posto si napisao da ne znas bas engleski dobro dodje uvek da procitas vise prevoda, posto je prevodjenje poezije jedan jako nezahvalan posao..

cisto da bi ti originalna verzija bila bliza :)
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1066255
nisam rekla da ne znam engleski, vec sam zamolila Renija da prevede, jer on takodje pise poeziju, pa me je zbog toga posebno zanimalo da procitam bas njegov prevod. Inace Blejka volim i znam skoro svu njegovu poeziju a volim i njegove ilustracije. Bio je odlocan slikar i veoma neobican covek, vizionar, koji je sa osam godina video drvo puno andjela i to je takodje naslikao
Korisnikov avatar
By Galadriel
#1066262
Originally posted by Manon
nisam rekla
ups :lol: moja greska
Originally posted by Manon
Inace Blejka volim i znam skoro svu njegovu poeziju a volim i njegove ilustracije. Bio je odlocan slikar i veoma neobican covek, vizionar, koji je sa osam godina video drvo puno andjela i to je takodje naslikao
jeste :) , bio je i sizofren i imao sulude vizije
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1066265
Blake je u svojim delima razvio poseban pesnički jezik, mitologiju i simboliku ("Moram stvoriti sistem ili biti zarobljen sistemu nekog drugog coveka", kaže Blake). Ziveo je u 18. veku. Oslanjao se na Bibliju, Shakespearea i Miltona i to treba imati u vidu prilikom prevoda (ako se to i može do kraja). Ako se ne uzmu u obzir ove okolnosti, nemoguće shvatiti celinu Blakeovog dela

...

Sva pesnicka i prozna dela koje je Blejk napisao u sebi sadrze istoriju, proricanja, kreacije novih mitova, apokalipticku i mudronosnu književnost, a sve u formi Vizije.
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1066272
BOLESNA RUŽA

O, ružo, bolesna si!
Nevidljivi crv jak,
Koji uz huk oluje
Leti kroz noćni mrak,

Pronašao je rujne
Radosti tvoje log,
Tamna mu tajna Ijubav
Uništava te stog.
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1066280
arwen_evenstar,

poklonicu ti sutra (sad sam umorna a predugacko je) jedan prevod tvojih omiljenih znamenja nevinosti, koji je 'sekspirovski' i bas me zanima da li ce ti se dopasti
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1066303
"If the doors of perception were to be cleansed, every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite."


Slika


Poetski genije je istinski čovek, smatra Blejk, jer njegova percepcija nalazi lepotu u stvarima.
Percepcija nije nešto što se događa pomoću naših čula, to je mentalni akt. Naše oči ne vide, ona su samo sočiva kroz koje posmatra naš um. A upravo je naš način viđenja, naša vizija, ono što Blejk naziva veštinom imaginacije.
Mentalno i intelektualno su joj sinonimi, dok je mašta u svezi sa aktom memorije.
Znači, opažati je isto što i zamišljati, povezati se sa individualnom matricom iskustva, postati deo onoga što vidiš.
Shodno tome, nema opšte prirode, jer ništa nije stvarno izvan zamišljenih matrica koje je čovek napravio od realnosti.
Dakle, u ovom svetu ima toliko mnogo realnosti koliko i ljudi koji ih stvaraju. Svačija mudrost je specifična u odnosu na njegovu individualnost.'' Realnost je isto toliko zavisna od oka posmatrača kao što je bilo rečeno za lepotu.''
Stoga,
stvaralačka percepcija je moć kojoj je omogućeno da sagleda svet u zrnu peska, i oseti večnost u jednom satu.
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1066328
Naziv koji koristi da bi opisao čoveka jeste Human form Divine. Svi ostali bogovi, Jehova, Zevs i drugi, su bogovi tirani. Pravi Bog se ne nalazi izvan čoveka, već unutar njega. Prema Blejku, svaki čovek poseduje kosmos u svojim grudima. Blejkova mitologija je priča o čoveku.
Pravi čovek, istinski ljudski arhetip, izbeći će da postane herojski zločinac i tiranin, kao i zamku njegovog nihilizma, kao što će izbeći da se pretvori u revolucionarnog vođu koji će podleći ciklusu.
Pravi čovek neće ni biti previše pošten, jer je u tom stanju nemoguće zadobiti višu vizuju svesti, a zadržati osvojeno poštenje. Niti je to čovek od volje i akcije, jer u njemu nema božanskog duha.
Pravi ljudski arhetip, prema Blejku, jeste čovek stvaralac. Jedino on poseduje božanski duh. Naime, u pitanju je klasa umetnika, ali čak ni oni ponaosob nisu deo Božanske Reči, već je to samo njihova celinska kreacija. Božanska je upravo njihova umetnost posmatrana kao njihova vizija života, njihov individualni deo u arhetipskoj viziji sveta.

The Divine Image

To Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love,
All pray in their distress:
And to these virtues of delight
Return their thankfulness.

For Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love,
Is God, our father dear:
And Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love,
Is Man, his child and care.

For Mercy has a human heart,
Pity, a human face:
And Love, the human form divine,
And Peace, the human dress.

Then every man of every clime,
That prays in his distress,
Prays to the human form divine,
Love, Mercy, Pity, Peace.

And all must love the human form,
In heathen, Turk, or Jew.
Where Mercy, Love, & Pity dwell,
There God is dwelling too.
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1066593
Originally posted by Manon
nisam rekla da ne znam engleski, vec sam zamolila Renija da prevede, jer on takodje pise poeziju, pa me je zbog toga posebno zanimalo da procitam bas njegov prevod. naslikao
Ja se nikada ne bih usudio da prevodim poeziju nekog pesnika/pesnikinje
ma koliko da dobro poznajem neciji opus...

Ako znas jezik na kome je pisan original, to je uvek najbolje resenje
By ~ Le Saint X ~
#1066594
A, na primer...mene njegove slike i ilustracije uopste ne doticu!

Ne svidja mi se njegov slikarski opus
Korisnikov avatar
By Galadriel
#1066784
ono sto sam ja mislila kad sam rekla da je prevodjenje nezahvalan posao, je to da koliko god da je neko strucan, bio on dr. ili mr. pri prevodjenju se mnogo gubi sto na zvucnosti, sto na izrazu..


sekspirovski prevod? :nesiguran:
Korisnikov avatar
By Manon
#1067440
Originally posted by arwen_evenstar
ono sto sam ja mislila kad sam rekla da je prevodjenje nezahvalan posao, je to da koliko god da je neko strucan, bio on dr. ili mr. pri prevodjenju se mnogo gubi sto na zvucnosti, sto na izrazu..


sekspirovski prevod? :nesiguran:
kad sam napisala sekspirovski, mislila sam na stil pisanja i te starinske romanticarske izraze i simbole. On se prilicno oslanjao na sekspirova dela u svom stvaralastvu
long long title how many chars? lets see 123 ok more? yes 60

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